Lan Qiren Meta

[x_los]

 You ever think about how this motherfucker didn't even want kids? Qiren’s brother abdicated. He got stuck running the sect, raising sons and trying to protect the ethos of Lan. He ended up endangering the sect’s material survival, and its core principles, while ruining his relationships with his kids (who never once consider calling him their father). And he never got to fuck Changse Sanren. Jiang Cheng 1.0, I see you.

 

He cannot even say, ‘well, at least the boys are happy—’ Xichen is in a sadcave for an indeterminate period, he is not happy. Qiren has to live the rest of his life knowing Wei Wuxian was right, and may be a better teacher than him. The sheer indignity! At least Jin Guangshan got to die, and didn't have to live with Wei Wuxian’s sex noises. I bet some days, Lan Qiren envies him. 

 

***

 

Lunarriviera suggested that some of the injunctions against speaking of Wei Wuxian after his death could have been intended kindly, given that Lan Wangji’s banishment to seclusion is, arguably, an assigned or self-chosen three-year traditional mourning period. However else they feel about it, Lan might recognise Lan Wangji as a kind of (possibly self-defined) widower. It might well upset Lan Wangji to hear Wei Wuxian incessantly discussed in the terms the cultivation world have taken to discussing him in his own home. 

 

Somewhat similarly, there’s seemingly almost no ‘domestic’ Lan conversation regarding the late Madam Lan. Why, exactly? The scandal of her original crime, or of her punishment? Saving face, an urge to conceal the events entirely? Patriarchal nastiness, or recognition of an open wound, and that it’d be unfair or unkind to say things about her that her children would have to hear?

 

(Fandom has leapt to the ‘pure patriarchal nastiness, uwu poor Madam Lan’ explanation of those events. While that’s very possible, it’s by no means the only viable telling of that story, and I have a degree of feminist disquiet with the lack of agency these very consistent framings offer the character: just Bertha Mason, forever. More on this another time.) 

 

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jin ling uncles georg, @aplethoras · Aug 31, 2020

Replying to @boldsurvive

just lan qiren against an army of beautiful fools simping for bastards

 

Lan Wangji is, eventually, revealed to have been Right All Along, but Qiren might well say, ‘in my fucking defence, how was I to know that this one time—’

 

I can’t believe Lan Qiren is so petty he straight up wrote ‘Wei Wuxian, specifically: don't fuck with him’ into a rock, like 'let there be zero room for misinterpretation here! I know he’s dead, ask me if I care!’ And Lan Qiren was right, that bitch came back!

Comments

[cats_eyes]

I think I'm starting to feel more sympathy for Lan Qiren, although he's still on the 'sorry your life sucks; you're still a dick!' spectrum that Jiang Cheng is on for me. (And to be fair about the not calling him father thing, 'father' might be enough of a dirty word to the Lan brothers that it's a greater sign of their affection for their uncle that they *don't* call him father.)

That's a good point about the No Speaking of Madam Lan thing being potentially a kindness. The biggest reason that I didn't like it was because it felt wrong to essentially erase her from history, but then Wei Wuxian's situation is sort of the flipside of that - and if no one's willing to consider your perspective while telling your story, is it better to not be spoken of at all?

Honestly, I'm very curious about what Lan Qiren's opinion of Jin Guangyao was, mostly because I would find it very amusing if he saw Jin Guangyao's Respectableness, thought 'now *there's* a suitable partner! At least ONE of my nephews has excellent taste' and ended up going 'well Fuck' that much harder when the dust settled.

[x_los]

Yeah, like, what is the 'history' that's being erased and how much can you trust it in the first place?

[narie]

Ooooh your idea that not speaking WWX's name is a kindness to LWJ, not just a punishment, is going to haunt me for a little bit. Thanks!

[x_los]

Yeah, it's Lunarriviera rather than me! And in *general* I'm inclined to read the rule as at least part punishment/defining what isn't acceptable, but these things are so complex in practice, a lot of effects or lived working accommodations could be folded in there?

[superborb]

It would be like usurping his brother's place to be called father though, so even perfect pseudo-dad LQR would probably not want that.

Really like the thought that not talking about WWX/Madam Lan might be a kindness.

[x_los]

It's interesting bc in some ways I feel a similar Western show would be keener to collapse that relationship, to honour the emotional implications or work done by 'upgrading' the title.

In a way it's weird as well bc their dad is ALIVE and there, in MDZS. Just off the screen of their lives.

[peachpai]

I can't say anything intelligent here because my brain is stuck on "jin ling uncles georg"

[solo]

You ever think about how this motherfucker didn't even want kids?

Well we don't know that. But I'm sure he'd have liked to be given a choice.

who never once consider calling him their father

I think it would be weird if they did, particularly in a society which has all these precise terms for relatives, and because their father was actually still... not entirely dead.

Jiang Cheng 1.0, I see you.

Hmmm. But nobody abdicated and left Jiang Cheng to carry the can. Sure, he ended up being a young, inexperienced Sect Leader but at least (unlike Qiren) he'd expected to be one at some point. And his parents could hardly help getting killed. So while the upshot in the end is indeed the same (inexperienced Sect Leader with accidentally acquired kid) the way this came about is quite different?

Xichen is in a sadcave for an indeterminate period, he is not happy. Qiren has to live the rest of his life knowing Wei Wuxian was right, and may be a better teacher than him. The sheer indignity! At least Jin Guangshan got to die, and didn't have to live with Wei Wuxian’s sex noises. I bet some days, Lan Qiren envies him.

This made me crack up and I agree entirely, though the only time he hears the noises is after days he has been especially uncharitable to WWX so LZ will allow WWX to omit the soundproofing talisman. This is still way too often. :)

I like the idea that forbidding talk about WWX is intended to be a kindness, but given the overall Lan Clan fucked-up-ness, I don't believe it for a minute. They are quite simply not into kindness. Rules, sure. Punishment, sure. Kindness? Not until the young generation. Even Lan Zhan isn't the 'kindness' type. Xichen is an exception there.

Saving face, an urge to conceal the events entirely?

That's how I have always read it and still do. But as you can tell my opinion of Lans isn't very high. It would be nice to think of a canon where the silence about WWX and about Madam Lan is intended to protect those grieving.

[spatz]

(Fandom has leapt to the ‘pure patriarchal nastiness, uwu poor Madam Lan’ explanation of those events. While that’s very possible, it’s by no means the only viable telling of that story, and I have a degree of feminist disquiet with the lack of agency these very consistent framings offer the character: just Bertha Mason, forever. More on this another time.)

While I am definitely on that boat just given the probabilities and general cultural attitude towards women in the 'verse, damn, now I do really want to see a fic portrayal of her as a Meng Yao type character who chose her murder and chose the potential consequences -- and chose to live when given the option. Maybe she lived to regret things when she couldn't see her children, but maybe she was like WWX, who missed his family but never thought saving the Wens was the wrong choice.

[x_los]

Yeah, like, I could see a LOT of readings there? LWJ getting his 'I knew I was RIGHT' unyielding conviction direct from mommy, who loved her kids BUT JUSTICE MOST

[spatz]

I know! I keep pining for a casefile where they find out the truth about why she murdered that guy -- which I know why it still doesn't exist, because that's logistically a nightmare as a case/plot, but I wants it. And even some commentary about Qingheng-jun's absence in his kids lives - like, just how voluntary was that seclusion? Was it really driven by his grief/guilt/whatever like Xichen implies, or was it like LWJ's three-year seclusion that was forced on him? Just how shady are the Lan elders (who presumably range from 'older' to 'bordering-on-immortality' old, with respective terrifying power levels), and how hard was Lan Qiren working behind the scenes to keep history from repeating?